In response to JC re immersion. I’ve become aware that this is a big issue for me in regard to rpgs. I like to play my character and immerse in that character. In some games, which I would class as story games, each player gets to play with the mechanics of the story in the way in which only a GM would in traditional games. By that I mean the player gets to suggest or frame scenes or narrate what happens to plot elements well outside of his PC. As soon as I start doing these kind of things I feel I am in the director’s chair rather than playing my character and I feel less immersed in my character.

In my experience some modern indie games play like traditional games in this respect. I would say Dogs in the Vineyard plays in a traditional way in that respect. I play my dog, the GM does the rest. Same with Vincent Baker’s new game, In a Wicked Age. It explicitly states that the player plays their character and the GM does everything else.

Other games like Primetime, Shock, Polaris, etc engage the player in more of a GM role and ask them to go far beyond playing their character and work with what used to be called the metagame (is it still called that?)

It’s not that one way is better than another, I know that some people enjoy both approaches and that’s fine. But that’s the distinction that I’ve come to in my quest for a game that I enjoy.

Now I need to go and check if my dishwasher is flooding my kitchen.

one quick comment about immersion (which I know has lots of different definitions)

I like to see the game through the eyes of the character, not the eyes of the camera, and I still love to “immerse” when playing DITV, or Polaris, or Contenders, or whatever

so I don’t think the distinction you make is valid

don’t let that give you the impression that I don’t like the show though, ’cause I do… it’s cool!

cheers!

*grins* cool. I’m glad it was that for you too. Let me know if you find the other ones useful. The next one will be around Feburary 1st, but it will have it’s own place on the internet, pushing it through this feed was a one time deal.

I’m glad you found this episode useful if not informative. There will be 5 more shows on the Story Games topic, so I’m hoping it will be fairly exhaustive for information. Hopefully you’ll find the future ones both informative and useful.

Hey Rene,

At times? Heh. You’d think different if you were looking at the waveforms to edit. I was totally monopolizing the microphone. If you looked at the wave form you’d see someone would say something for 30 seconds then I would talk for two minutes. As the show went on someone would talk for a minute to a minute and a half and I’d talk for six. Ha. Hopefully having my cohost Matt Synder on will cut down on that some as he can jump in also and hit points I likely feel need to be made. Plus I think he makes points more succinctly than my rambling self. If you think this show was bad don’t listen to my upcoming episodes as cohost on Stabbing Contest (http://stabbingcontest.libsyn.com) as the host Ogre has to fight to get a word in edgewise. Plus I went on so long he’s going to cut it into two shows.

I definitely won’t stop doing interviews, but I’ve lost sight of my original intention and am somewhat disappointed by that, so I plan to take the show weekly. One week an interview, one week just my boring monotone describing some theory topic.

Hey Tim,

Yeah… show notes with time codes. We discussed that before and it could happen, but I’m not sure it will be in the near future. You’re welcome to cut it into pieces that fit better it would likely only take a minute or two using audacity, and audacity is free. I’m not going to do it though as I find the idea of cutting the conversation up aesthetically unpleasing.

Hey Dustin, maybe PTA was too big of a step for your group. I can’t recommend Spirit of the Century enough for introducing a group to story gaming.

I really enjoyed this new show, although at times I felt that you were monopolizing the mic.

You mentioned something about going crazy with the interviews. Does this mean you’re going to stop making them? I enjoy both the interview shows and the solo shows, and I hope you continue doing both.

Cheers,

I am one of two GMs in our gaming group. I was very proud to get the other GM to switch from D&D to Warhammer, but he is so against a lot of these games that are too co-narative (like PTA). Everyone did find in Dogs in the Vineyard, but it still allows players to kind of be shy about telling the story. I am hoping my Dust Devils game goes better because I am more into running co-narrative games than having the players make me do all of the work.

Second, I personally do not call any of these games “Story Games” because even when we were playing the “reactive” (traditional?) games like Vampire and Warhammer, we kind of rigging the games to be more cinematic. But, after reading some of the games from the 10 of IPR, I can understand why they would try to call them “Story Games.”

I entitle games by how co-narrative they are. Take for example Even Faery’s Tale, Esoterrorist and Serenity have a co-narrative element in the game (btw, Mario and David are the only people I have ever heard that say anything positive about that crappy system for Serenity). On the extreme side, PTA and Nine Worlds Need more player input to work out (these are the games I would prefer to run….in a perfect world

Like I said, this show, if not informative, at least brought home the issue of teaching co-narrative/Story Games to players who are used to sitting back and being entertained by the GM.

Thank you guys!

Dustin (from OKC)