Show055: Homosexuality and RPG’s
Man this was difficult. Alexander talked to me about discussing homosexuality in RPG’s at least two years. Gen Con 2008, we got together twice and talked, but I somehow lost, or destroyed both recordings accidentally. So that’s what brings us to sitting down to talk via Skype, because I didn’t end up doing any recordings at Gen Con this year. I think I only played one game at Gen Con, where I fell asleep. There was just too much catching up in the short amount of time I was there.
This recording itself was difficult because I had echo during the whole thing which makes it difficult to think and speak. So if there are more pregnant pauses then normal, that’s why.
4:35 pm on September 14th, 2009
Heya Clyde,
I’m only 1/3 of the way through this episode, but I wanted to chime in before I forgot. Alexander asked if there were any homosexual characters in any WotC modules. I know Monte Cook through a couple in Return to the Temple of Elemental evil, and I think he did in a few of his other, non-WOTC modules (queen of lies comes to mind). Fascinating interview so far. Keep up the good work!
Kevin Weiser
http://www.themushroom.com
4:45 pm on September 14th, 2009
Good show. Not a topic that I had actually put much thought into so it really go me thinking.
I’m actually a bit surprised by all the rants Alexander had. Is it really necessary to tell guys that gay men don’t want to sleep with them? Apparently it is. I expected that gamers (in general) were more a open-minded group. But, I guess, there is still a large representation of traditional gamers who are, well… traditional.
9:38 pm on September 15th, 2009
@Micah gamers? open-minded? Bwahahaha. The various ghettos and cliques of the set of people who play, read, write or talk about rpgs is fanatically narrow-minded about their One True RPG. Why shouldn’t it be any different when it comes to actually playing with The Other. Whether The Other is a woman, a homo, a PoC, a foreigner with an accent or a visitor from another clique or ghetto.
I’m going to have to listen to this aren’t I? I have no idea what bullshit I spouted and in what quantity. I assume copious.
11:23 pm on September 15th, 2009
Here are the links I mentioned:
Justine Larbalestier: http://justinelarbalestier.com/
Libba Bray: http://libbabray.com/agreatandterriblebeauty.html
David Levithan, Boy Meets Boy: http://www.amazon.com/Boy-Meets-David-Levithan/dp/0375824006
Mouse Guard RPG: http://www.archaiasp.com/mouse_guard_rpg.php
This recording, by the way, is a textbook example of why voice actors don’t work half an hour after waking up with a hangover by choice. Ahem.
12:40 am on September 21st, 2009
I thought this was a good topic to discuss, but I’m a little confused about the position that Alexander was advocating.
On the one hand it seems that he (you? are you still reading this?) wants gamers, GMs and designers to avoid automatically using a straight, white, male as the default character and default audience in a game. This opens the way to be representative of the diversity of humanity. It was also suggested that these kinds of characteristics be included as something like an aspect.
On the other hand, it was then suggested that these characteristics not be treated as flags, implying that although a character is X (gay, Maori, Chinese, etc.), that X-ness should not be incorporated into the plot.
I’d like to resolve this. Can you clarify the position a little? If a player brings a character who has “gay” on the character sheet, to what extent would you suggest that a GM bring that into the story?
7:17 am on September 21st, 2009
I understood that to mean that X-ness shouldn’t /necessarily/ be incorporated into the plot; that is, it’s more the ubiquity of the practice than the practice itself that is at fault.
A good metric is this: consider a straight white male character and a gay nonwhite female character. Which character is more likely to have those attributes incorporated into the plot?
If either answer is correct, then your game likely has a problem.
12:44 pm on September 21st, 2009
Hey Andrew, Hey Pavitra,
I’m not sure that Alexander was saying homosexuality, Transgender, or race for that matter, shouldn’t be explored. I think he was speaking out against when it is used to make our game “edgy,” when it’s not really edgy, sexuality in it’s different varieties are part of the human condition.
Of Course… I may be wrong, I expect we’ll hear soon enough….
5:45 pm on September 21st, 2009
Clyde’s got it. I elucidated a bit more on Story Games, where I clarified (for myself) some of what I was trying to say. Ignore the general bogging-down that happens in that cesspool of self-involvement.
10:51 pm on September 21st, 2009
Just to make sure I understand, let me repeat it back.
Including the “non-default” descriptors on a character is good in order to be representative of the population. Exploring these non-default descriptors in the story is also good, as long as it’s not for the express purpose of sensationalism (being edgy).
Is that what you’re saying (in my words)?
I’m keen to make my games better, so this topic has given me much grist for the mill. I don’t think I’ll ever forget the time that I handed out the pre-gen characters and a gamer looked across the table at me with a disappointed droop in her face and said, “No girl characters?” I consider myself thoroughly reprimanded, but in search of an appropriate way to move forward.
8:59 pm on September 24th, 2009
Andrew, Yes. That’s what I got from the conversation. I don’t run preplanned games at cons usually, but I tend to make them with male and female names where possible. I think in the future I’ll have multiple pictures.
9:55 pm on October 5th, 2009
Heya Clyde,
I’m only 1/3 of the way through this episode, but I wanted to chime in before I forgot. Alexander asked if there were any homosexual characters in any WotC modules. I know Monte Cook through a couple in Return to the Temple of Elemental evil, and I think he did in a few of his other, non-WOTC modules (queen of lies comes to mind). Fascinating interview so far. Keep up the good work!
Kevin Weiser
http://www.themushroom.com
8:32 pm on November 16th, 2009
Just wanted to say, now that I’ve had the time to listen, good show. Even if your guest had just woke up.
Even if it was “out of the closet”…