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6 Responses to “Tofranil FOR SALE”

  1. [...] from Master Plan 52 (as well as a bunch of other thoughts), you can hear me on Clyde Rhoer’s Theory From the Closet 56. Two hours and twenty minutes of unedited chatter, [...]

  2. Mike says:

    Clyde (and Ryan),

    This was one of your best episodes ever! I really enjoyed the discussion, though I disagreed strongly with each of you several times. (For instance, I think the problem with simulationism is not that it doesn’t exist, as Ryan maintains, but that it encompasses several different agendas.) But any podcast which inspires yelling is a good one. I’m trying to get a more coherent response in writing, but didn’t want to wait to give you some positive feedback. Great work.


  3. clyde says:

    Hey Mike,

    Sorry for the delay in response… I’m horrible on timely comment response. Glad to hear you both agreed and disagreed with us. I love hearing about evoked emotional response. I’d also love to see and link to your response.

  4. [...] Still grappling with issues of reincorporation, as discussed on Master Plan and then at great (excessive?) length on Theory From the Closet [...]

  5. Paul Fricker says:

    Just finished re-listening to all all of the TheoryftC podcasts.

    I thought this last episode made a number of good points. The whole reincorporation thing is a good one.

    However the one that really chimed with me was Clyde’s comment about simulationism being a mode of play that seeks to hide any creative agenda. I’ve played a lot of Cthulhu and that is exactly how many people seek to play it. As you said, people who play in that way comment that they like rules that get out of the way, but what does that really mean? Perhaps as you say, the ‘rules that get out of the way’ are ones that don’t bring in gamist or narrative concerns.
    My following comments are based on observations of ‘standard’ Call of Cthulhu players IME.

    1. There is a game element but while players seek to have their PCs survive they don’t ‘game’ it like one would in DnD4e; any fun in a combat tends to come more from the situation rather than the game mechanics.

    2. The game might explore a theme or character issue, but this is not openly directed or discussed by the players as it would be in a game like PtA.

    The consensus among the players is that the rules are there to support a sense of reality; risks and repercussions as in the real world. Thus the rules get out of the way in terms of gaming and themes.

    There is much discussion of what immersion means. I wonder if each type of creative agenda has it’s own form of immersion, as follows?

    I feel that in PtA (for example) a player participates in the making of a TV show from behind the curtain (you see the cameras, the director, the script writers) – you see the narrators. As a player one seeks to be immersed in the creation of story?

    I think that in DnD4e (for example) a player is very much playing a game; competing with the game and the DM to keep his PC alive, to win fights and so on. For me, in this game much of the fun comes from engaging with the actual game mechanics. As a player one seeks to be immersed in the excitement of a game?

    In Call of Cthulhu the players experience the drama more in the way that one might watch a TV show, the rules, the agendas, the scriptwriters, etc, are behind the curtain (the keeper’s screen if you like). As a player I get immersed in the world, a simulation of a reality?

    I’ve sought to couch all of the above as my opinions – that’s all they are and I don’t seek to say any one form of play or game is better than another. I enjoy some much more than others, but I know friends who have different preferences.

  6. clyde says:

    Hey Paul,

    I hope I qualified that I’m repeating Mike Holmes’ definition for something he doesn’t want to call Simulationism, but Fecundity, if I remember correctly. I’m apparently not as considerate as he is.

    Otherwise I agree, and I know I discussed somewhere different modes of immersion, but it might have been the second, “Discussions from the Closet” episode, which I think never got released. While not being a Call of Cthulu fan, the mode of immersion you are describing is my favorite, although I’m not sure the game has to get out of the way, but it certainly requires a system that isn’t really Gamey. Mike Holmes’ “Otherworlds,” and Fred Hicks, “Don’t Rest Your Head.” are two games I think that would be ideal for this mode, but have rules that add to that type of play rather than blocking it.

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